tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6657229330840382051.post5877940690948735376..comments2024-02-28T08:40:20.134+00:00Comments on From Swerve of Shore to Bend of Bay: A damn good one about comets' tailsPeter Chrisphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11206688095197843271noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6657229330840382051.post-41392733678792855622017-11-16T12:25:56.542+00:002017-11-16T12:25:56.542+00:00Great to see this online. Good work!Great to see this online. Good work!Peter Chrisphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11206688095197843271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6657229330840382051.post-78916987769373755832017-11-15T16:11:34.185+00:002017-11-15T16:11:34.185+00:00i interlibraried the latest topographical guide (g...i interlibraried the latest topographical guide (gunn and hart) and typed in the spreadsheet it claims is hart's:<br />https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16azrFSDFGw9dXKb2Isbxq1YnBquBkqGkNNOzOKyEruY/edit?usp=sharing<br /><br />i'm shocked it seems to treat the bookcart as a 'cheat' with bloom seemingly in two places at once: does hart acknowledge the timing problem?<br /><br />(i'm slowly adding other trouble-points in red)<br />Tim Finneganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05837865678139104469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6657229330840382051.post-81773727952156793002017-03-26T11:28:45.300+01:002017-03-26T11:28:45.300+01:00(apologies for using this forum for such messy arg...(apologies for using this forum for such messy arguments, but thanks for the opening: we have to do it somewhere eventually)<br /><br />to me it's always unfair to say, eg "just spend $8 for a used amazon copy of hart" because that style of argument will quickly bankrupt anyone. and "just defer to the experts" would be way worse, because we've collectively barely scratched the surface. (rose dared to 'correct' joyce's ulysses 'errors'?!?!? what hubris!) <br /><br />i'm happy to use online resources to rethink any/everything from scratch (and i'm grateful to anyone who'll post online useful summaries of offline resources).<br /><br />here's maginni's timing from googlemaps: https://goo.gl/maps/CnQS8fmMJxF2 it looks to me like he might cross the bridge as late as 3:34 (cavalcade passing grafton around 3:42?).<br /><br />i sense a problem rushing from conmee's ankles (3:25?) to boody's soup to dilly's 2p/ then river crossing/ then primer-buying/ then stephen-meeting, and still getting her to fownes for the vc by 3:41.<br /><br />also 9 minutes between lenehan's 3:09 bookcart and bloom's-pov 3:18 sweets seems rather long. <br /><br />but lenehan would have to race from rochford's disk (3:05?) to the booky's to Boylan's 3:09 insertion "A darkbacked figure under Merchants' arch scanned books on the hawker's cart" quickly followed by the dunne-phonecall (3:10?) with the cavalcade simultaneously exiting "the gates of the drive". <br /><br />if conmee's ankles are somehow earlier, and the bookcart somehow later, an sd/lb path-crossing at clohissey's might still be wangled...Tim Finneganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17247114925548095003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6657229330840382051.post-33546799983937496592017-03-24T17:54:10.939+00:002017-03-24T17:54:10.939+00:00I mean the interjections happen simultaneously wit...I mean the interjections happen simultaneously with the narrative events they're inserted into Peter Chrisphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11206688095197843271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6657229330840382051.post-88136853315014060012017-03-24T12:37:53.639+00:002017-03-24T12:37:53.639+00:00I think Bloom visits Clohissy's bookshop well ...I think Bloom visits Clohissy's bookshop well before Stephen does. Hart worked out the timings from the interjections, which happen simultaneously - see his essay on Wandering Rocks in Ulysses (ed Hart and Hayman), in which he gives a chart with all the timings. <br /><br />He places Bloom in the Merchants Arch at 3.09 and looking at Sweets of Sin at 3.18 (from the sighting of Maginni on the O'Connell Bridge).<br /><br />He's already visited Clohissey's in Bedford Row, based on the intinerary given in Ithaca ''a bookhunt along Bedford Row, Merchants' Arch, Wellington Quay.''<br /><br />Stephen doesn't get to Clohissy's until about 3.33. We know this because of the interjection of Conmee in Donnycarney, murmuring vespers - this is the end of Conmee's section, which you can time (Hart did it with a stop watch).Peter Chrisphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11206688095197843271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6657229330840382051.post-68609591971434840842017-03-23T22:10:58.913+00:002017-03-23T22:10:58.913+00:00I think they missed the band arriving behind Artif...I think they missed the band arriving behind Artifoni (so, pre-3pm) and this cascades for them to an illusory 20min gap between Lenehan passing Bloom and Stephen meeting Dilly https://twitter.com/EmojiUlyssesTim Finneganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17247114925548095003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6657229330840382051.post-60328099077226579762017-03-23T20:21:27.337+00:002017-03-23T20:21:27.337+00:00Not at the same time, no Not at the same time, no Peter Chrisphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11206688095197843271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6657229330840382051.post-51551496410147178122017-03-23T19:26:35.153+00:002017-03-23T19:26:35.153+00:00There's plenty of other mixed consciousnesses ...There's plenty of other mixed consciousnesses as precedent, aren't there? Does Hart put Bloom and Stephen there simultaneously?Tim Finneganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17247114925548095003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6657229330840382051.post-74774274403599765582017-03-23T19:19:13.037+00:002017-03-23T19:19:13.037+00:00I've also got a copy of Aristotle's Master...I've also got a copy of Aristotle's Masterpiece! Peter Chrisphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11206688095197843271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6657229330840382051.post-50877915541692617582017-03-23T18:55:48.419+00:002017-03-23T18:55:48.419+00:00Slote quotes Byrne "there was no cart in the ...Slote quotes Byrne "there was no cart in the Arch: the books were on shelves" (would this have been Fitzgerald's then rather than Strong's?)Tim Finneganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17247114925548095003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6657229330840382051.post-52124529253757539072017-03-23T18:51:30.356+00:002017-03-23T18:51:30.356+00:00"JF Byrne, who grew up nearby on Essex street..."JF Byrne, who grew up nearby on Essex street, identifies [the porn seller] as Josh Strong-- a Jew-- and confirms he displayed a copy of Aristotle's Masterpiece. His shop was 200 yards west of Merchant's Arch."Tim Finneganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17247114925548095003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6657229330840382051.post-76549418786967848922017-03-23T18:45:45.406+00:002017-03-23T18:45:45.406+00:00[I just hit the damned 'sign out' button a...[I just hit the damned 'sign out' button and erased a long comment.] Based on the cavalcade, all 3 could have been in Clohissey's shortly after Simon gave Dilly 2p. She then went south to Fownes street, Bloom went west towards Grattan/Essex bridge, which Lenehan had already reached. Bloom probably stopped shopping once he got the book? And Stephen may have lingered in the bookstore?Tim Finneganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17247114925548095003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6657229330840382051.post-49053479323179406612017-03-23T18:44:25.350+00:002017-03-23T18:44:25.350+00:00Yes, that's even hinted at in the book. In Clo...Yes, that's even hinted at in the book. In Clohissy's on Bedford Row, Stephen reads the magic formula '-- Se et yilo nebrakada femininum! Amor me solo! Sanktus! Amen.'<br /><br />The same formula crops up in Bloom's fantasy in Circe.<br /><br />MARION Nebrakada! Feminimum.<br /><br />Which suggests that Bloom has browsed in the same book in the same bookshop.<br /><br />This was suggested by Clive Hart, in James Joyce's Dublin, commenting, 'We take this to be an indication of earlier physical movements and experiences rather than a mixing of consciousness'Peter Chrisphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11206688095197843271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6657229330840382051.post-4967195588875312322017-03-23T18:06:16.215+00:002017-03-23T18:06:16.215+00:00That's an important catch-- Bloom might even h...That's an important catch-- Bloom might even have been in Clohissey's with Stephen and Dilly: https://goo.gl/maps/3WGoqCjC6PN2Tim Finneganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17247114925548095003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6657229330840382051.post-47802703754912243132017-03-23T18:02:49.803+00:002017-03-23T18:02:49.803+00:00Yes, Bloom doesn't respect M'Coy, so he is...Yes, Bloom doesn't respect M'Coy, so he isn't bothered that M'Coy looks up to him. As for Lenehan he's an intelligent man who has to put on an act to survive. In Two Gallants, he puts on a rough working class accent in the cafe, 'to belie his air of gentility '. 'He knew he would have to speak a great deal, to invent and to amuse...'Peter Chrisphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11206688095197843271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6657229330840382051.post-31499473872598231212017-03-23T17:20:08.473+00:002017-03-23T17:20:08.473+00:00Just discovered from Gunn and Hart's James Joy...Just discovered from Gunn and Hart's James Joyce's Dublin that in 1904 there was a bookshop, Francis Fitzgerald's, at 1 Merchants Arch. We also learn in Ithaca that Bloom undertook 'a bookhunt along Bedford Row, Merchants' Arch, Wellington Quay.' If that list is in chronological order, he probably found the Sweets of Sin on Wellington Quay.Peter Chrisphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11206688095197843271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6657229330840382051.post-34625127560953470202017-03-23T16:49:07.791+00:002017-03-23T16:49:07.791+00:00Thanks Alfreda - I have memories of them too I thi...Thanks Alfreda - I have memories of them too I think xPeter Chrisphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11206688095197843271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6657229330840382051.post-71467814541052776522017-03-23T16:36:57.372+00:002017-03-23T16:36:57.372+00:00Bloom regrets he didn't work M'Coy for a p...Bloom regrets he didn't work M'Coy for a pass, but he also suspects him of scheming to run off with Bloom's valise, and maybe of "pimping after me". Also, ambiguously "Think he's that way inclined a bit. Against my grain somehow." Do you see these as Bloom habitually underestimating M'Coy's respect? Do you find other hints of Lenehan showing delicacy?Tim Finneganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17247114925548095003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6657229330840382051.post-84224130427588005272017-03-23T16:05:33.519+00:002017-03-23T16:05:33.519+00:00Yes, that's how they're described in Dubli...Yes, that's how they're described in Dubliners. Lenehan dresses like a young man but he has grey scant hair and a ravaged face. M'Coy, a former tenor, has tried many different jobs. Peter Chrisphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11206688095197843271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6657229330840382051.post-54623714123464738982017-03-23T15:06:38.344+00:002017-03-23T15:06:38.344+00:00Hi there
there was lots of book stalls along the S...Hi there<br />there was lots of book stalls along the South Quay Side of Merchant's Arch right up to the 80s so perhaps there love the Blog it's wonderful x<br />Dublin Love Affairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12417231501788050716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6657229330840382051.post-4464940383923066302017-03-23T14:28:15.358+00:002017-03-23T14:28:15.358+00:00I imagine Lenehan and M'Coy closer to Bloom...I imagine Lenehan and M'Coy closer to Bloom's age than Stephen's (contra Strick), but I don't remember just why.Tim Finneganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17247114925548095003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6657229330840382051.post-64320692887634402662017-03-23T14:08:45.696+00:002017-03-23T14:08:45.696+00:00Good point - he's browsing books on a cart und...Good point - he's browsing books on a cart under the arch, and in a shop in his section, but it's probably nearby Peter Chrisphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11206688095197843271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6657229330840382051.post-66545112195249220552017-03-23T13:47:01.328+00:002017-03-23T13:47:01.328+00:00There wasn't really a bookstore under the Arch...There wasn't really a bookstore under the Arch, so we should allow that Bloom's section might take place elsewhere.Tim Finneganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17247114925548095003noreply@blogger.com